bugfaceuk
Apr 9, 09:32 AM
So does that means you didn't like Jungle Hunt?
Or that millions don't play WOW.
Or that millions don't play WOW.
Bill McEnaney
Mar 27, 04:10 PM
It isn't fallacious when the source is known to be unreliable and non representative of the field which they purport to be a part of.
But no one here has proved that Nicolosi is an unreliable representative of his field. If someone proves that Nicolosi is mistaken, maybe no one will need to attack him.
During this thread, I've just read an emotionally charged post that doesn't prove anything that the poster says about Nicolosi. I try to feel plenty of empathy. But if others keep attacking someone who disagrees with them, the attackers don't evoke my empathy. They decrease their credibility.
But no one here has proved that Nicolosi is an unreliable representative of his field. If someone proves that Nicolosi is mistaken, maybe no one will need to attack him.
During this thread, I've just read an emotionally charged post that doesn't prove anything that the poster says about Nicolosi. I try to feel plenty of empathy. But if others keep attacking someone who disagrees with them, the attackers don't evoke my empathy. They decrease their credibility.
Huntn
Apr 25, 12:45 PM
Comma added, because my brain was starting to hurt. ;)
And I agree, but then 'power' is lost, and that just won't do, now will it? :rolleyes:
No not really especially when power is often held by those placing themselves in the position of interpreting what God thinks and wants...
I do think it was a bad call when God decided that strapping on explosives and blowing up the local market and it's customers was appropriate. ;)
And I agree, but then 'power' is lost, and that just won't do, now will it? :rolleyes:
No not really especially when power is often held by those placing themselves in the position of interpreting what God thinks and wants...
I do think it was a bad call when God decided that strapping on explosives and blowing up the local market and it's customers was appropriate. ;)
parenthesis
Oct 25, 10:27 PM
Apple wasn't very quick at adopting the Core2 chips (which are pin-compatible with Core chips), what would make Clovertown any different?
If history serves as a template for the future, then I wouldn't expect anything new until after the holiday season (even though the Mac Pro isn't a consumer device, companies usually aren't looking to spend money on new machines right before the new year starts)
If history serves as a template for the future, then I wouldn't expect anything new until after the holiday season (even though the Mac Pro isn't a consumer device, companies usually aren't looking to spend money on new machines right before the new year starts)
Rt&Dzine
Apr 26, 05:50 PM
Or it vanished in a miracle.
For the bread has risen.
That is too ******* funny!
For the bread has risen.
That is too ******* funny!
Apple OC
Apr 22, 10:33 PM
It's the Eye of Providence! The all seeing eye of God. It also has some sort of connection to the Freemasons (I'm not sure how true that is!).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence
Thanks for that ... I also find the "Federal Reserve" a little mysterious
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10489
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence
Thanks for that ... I also find the "Federal Reserve" a little mysterious
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10489
Gelfin
Mar 27, 10:43 PM
But what if changed thoughts and changed behaviors would make people even happier than than they would be without the changes?
That's a reasonable outcome too, and so long as the patient comes out at peace with himself, no credible psychologist would attempt to force someone to be gay either.
The available evidence about the viability of "conversion" might lead to some skepticism, and an expectation that the patient will "relapse" and return to therapy (something Nicolosi knows quite well), but the therapist ultimately has a responsibility to respect what the patient represents.
Not even Nicolosi tells his clients that they need to change their sexual orientation.
Really? Because this is nothing like anything Nicolosi has ever said publicly. His entire theory is that anyone who is gay is psychologically broken, and that making someone psychologically healthy automatically makes him straight. How could anyone infer it is not his position that his clients need to change their sexual orientation?
He says that NARTH is for people who want to change it.
Or whose parents demand they change it as a condition of parental love.
Besides, what is the threshold for "wanting" to change it? Being gay in this society is a colossal nuisance in many ways. Most of the most secure and confident gay men I've ever met would admit having at some point wished they were straight, just like many minorities sometimes find themselves wishing they were white, or some women occasionally wish they were male. It would be a lot easier, and in the case of homosexuality, often very much easier indeed. It's the only such situation in the modern day where children are actually denied the love of their parents and community and thrown into the streets. Cultural attitudes towards homosexuality make denial almost a given when one starts to realize one's own orientation is not the norm.
If these thoughts are so disruptive that the sufferer's life is impacted, then the sufferer needs therapy, not to make him into what he isn't, but to help him come to terms with himself in whatever way works best for him.
In a video I posted to this discussion, he says that therapy doesn't work well for clients who tell him they want to change because the Bible teaches that they shouldn't have homosexual sex.
And you get from this that he doesn't think people need to change? He's telling people why they are likely to be failures, warning them of attitudes that will make them failures, and preconditioning them to begin the long process of telling counselors what they want to hear.
What that quote says is, "being religious and wanting your religious beliefs to be compatible with your sexual identity is not sufficient. There will never be a compromise between your sexuality and your religion, and the religion cannot be wrong, so you must be, and you will fail if you don't accept that and truly loathe yourself as much as we expect you to. And if you don't, we're here to help."
Bottom line, NARTH calls only one specific outcome a success, and it is for gay people to become no longer gay, irrespective of psychological consequences, because that isn't what's important to them. Eliminating homosexuality is. Although they understand and accept that not all gay people will be receptive to their "treatment," they also believe that all gay people need to be converted. This is psychological quackery.
That's a reasonable outcome too, and so long as the patient comes out at peace with himself, no credible psychologist would attempt to force someone to be gay either.
The available evidence about the viability of "conversion" might lead to some skepticism, and an expectation that the patient will "relapse" and return to therapy (something Nicolosi knows quite well), but the therapist ultimately has a responsibility to respect what the patient represents.
Not even Nicolosi tells his clients that they need to change their sexual orientation.
Really? Because this is nothing like anything Nicolosi has ever said publicly. His entire theory is that anyone who is gay is psychologically broken, and that making someone psychologically healthy automatically makes him straight. How could anyone infer it is not his position that his clients need to change their sexual orientation?
He says that NARTH is for people who want to change it.
Or whose parents demand they change it as a condition of parental love.
Besides, what is the threshold for "wanting" to change it? Being gay in this society is a colossal nuisance in many ways. Most of the most secure and confident gay men I've ever met would admit having at some point wished they were straight, just like many minorities sometimes find themselves wishing they were white, or some women occasionally wish they were male. It would be a lot easier, and in the case of homosexuality, often very much easier indeed. It's the only such situation in the modern day where children are actually denied the love of their parents and community and thrown into the streets. Cultural attitudes towards homosexuality make denial almost a given when one starts to realize one's own orientation is not the norm.
If these thoughts are so disruptive that the sufferer's life is impacted, then the sufferer needs therapy, not to make him into what he isn't, but to help him come to terms with himself in whatever way works best for him.
In a video I posted to this discussion, he says that therapy doesn't work well for clients who tell him they want to change because the Bible teaches that they shouldn't have homosexual sex.
And you get from this that he doesn't think people need to change? He's telling people why they are likely to be failures, warning them of attitudes that will make them failures, and preconditioning them to begin the long process of telling counselors what they want to hear.
What that quote says is, "being religious and wanting your religious beliefs to be compatible with your sexual identity is not sufficient. There will never be a compromise between your sexuality and your religion, and the religion cannot be wrong, so you must be, and you will fail if you don't accept that and truly loathe yourself as much as we expect you to. And if you don't, we're here to help."
Bottom line, NARTH calls only one specific outcome a success, and it is for gay people to become no longer gay, irrespective of psychological consequences, because that isn't what's important to them. Eliminating homosexuality is. Although they understand and accept that not all gay people will be receptive to their "treatment," they also believe that all gay people need to be converted. This is psychological quackery.
shawnce
Jul 12, 11:44 AM
As for Conroes being too hot for an iMac, that strikes me as ridiculous. From what I've read, conroes use 40% less power than Pentium D's and are very efficient in terms of power to performance.
Pentium D has horrid heat output. :)
Merom is a laptop chip and I'm not sure it will ever end up in a desktop system, even if it is the same socket as the Yonah.
Yonah is a laptop chip yet it is in Apple's desktop iMac. :)
Anyway...
The Merom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#endnote_MeromSpeculation) has a TDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_Design_Point) of 35 W and the Conroe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#endnote_ConroeSpeculation) has a TDP of 65 W (or 80 W for the X6xxx) ...and that isn't counting the difference in heat produced by the chipset (Apple is using a laptop chipset in the Intel iMac).
So the question is can Apple use a chip and chipset that will have a peak thermal load that is likely more then double (if they used Conroe) what is in the current Intel iMac (the Yonah has a TDP around 27 W). Also in theory the Conroe should come out a little cheaper then a Merom based system because of volume and binning.
Likely they can (given the iMac contained a G5 at one point, granted low clock rate) but it will come at the cost of more constant use of fans.
Apple could go either way on this...
Pentium D has horrid heat output. :)
Merom is a laptop chip and I'm not sure it will ever end up in a desktop system, even if it is the same socket as the Yonah.
Yonah is a laptop chip yet it is in Apple's desktop iMac. :)
Anyway...
The Merom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#endnote_MeromSpeculation) has a TDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_Design_Point) of 35 W and the Conroe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#endnote_ConroeSpeculation) has a TDP of 65 W (or 80 W for the X6xxx) ...and that isn't counting the difference in heat produced by the chipset (Apple is using a laptop chipset in the Intel iMac).
So the question is can Apple use a chip and chipset that will have a peak thermal load that is likely more then double (if they used Conroe) what is in the current Intel iMac (the Yonah has a TDP around 27 W). Also in theory the Conroe should come out a little cheaper then a Merom based system because of volume and binning.
Likely they can (given the iMac contained a G5 at one point, granted low clock rate) but it will come at the cost of more constant use of fans.
Apple could go either way on this...
Multimedia
Oct 23, 09:54 PM
And now for the update... Dell re-shipped via UPS next-day. Still took until yesterday apparently to actually ship from Dell. But it's here. I just plugged it in and everything looks just fine. No dead/stuck pixels I can see. But then again, that's the way my first one was I bought nearly a year ago. After about 3 months, *POP!* one blue stuck pixel. Hehe, these two screens look maaaavolous together. :D Would it be gloating too much if I posted a pic? Heheheh... Maybe I'll bust out the camera after I clean off my desk. ;)Holy Molly now 30" Dells are only $1279.20 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productlisting.aspx?c=us&category_id=6198&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs). They just lowered the list to $1599.
Any chance we can get a price adjustment?
We paid $1349 last week. That's another $75.60 less including tax. Man I could of had an iPod Shuffle for that. :(
10.24.06 - New C2D MacBookPro's announced.
AV-I phoned Dell this morning and got a $70 credit toward my 30". Wouldn't give me the $5.60 sales tax but got $70 instead of the usual $50 they said. Me so happy. That means I got the Dell 30" including sales tax for $1398.32. :D :p :)
Any chance we can get a price adjustment?
We paid $1349 last week. That's another $75.60 less including tax. Man I could of had an iPod Shuffle for that. :(
10.24.06 - New C2D MacBookPro's announced.
AV-I phoned Dell this morning and got a $70 credit toward my 30". Wouldn't give me the $5.60 sales tax but got $70 instead of the usual $50 they said. Me so happy. That means I got the Dell 30" including sales tax for $1398.32. :D :p :)
ddtlm
Oct 7, 03:53 PM
Backtothemac:
Jesus you still don't get it. If you compare Apples to Apples, the 1.6GHZ Dual Athlon is still slower in apps that are multi processor aware. Now, how about the PIV? How does that stack up? The x86 is garbage. Any real IT director would know that.
No, I "get it" fine. Don't bother testing a 1.6ghz dual Athlon when 1.8ghz dual Athlons are readily available. It would do you good to note that this test did not cover all "apps that are multi processor aware", it covered only two apps that are multi-processor aware, and on one of them the Mac looses by a lot. Even on its one win, the dual 1.25 G4 would still loose to a top-of-the-line dual Athlon. Which is slower than a top-of-the-line dual Xeon. Get it?
Jesus you still don't get it. If you compare Apples to Apples, the 1.6GHZ Dual Athlon is still slower in apps that are multi processor aware. Now, how about the PIV? How does that stack up? The x86 is garbage. Any real IT director would know that.
No, I "get it" fine. Don't bother testing a 1.6ghz dual Athlon when 1.8ghz dual Athlons are readily available. It would do you good to note that this test did not cover all "apps that are multi processor aware", it covered only two apps that are multi-processor aware, and on one of them the Mac looses by a lot. Even on its one win, the dual 1.25 G4 would still loose to a top-of-the-line dual Athlon. Which is slower than a top-of-the-line dual Xeon. Get it?
aristobrat
Mar 18, 01:09 PM
Who cares?
I dont give a crap. My speeds are great even with all that.
Oh, OK. You're one of those "hey, everything is great for *me*, so what the hell are YOU complaining about people". Cool.
I work in a decent sized office building where 3G speed isn't consistently great. I also know of at least four people that bring their personal laptops and torrent via MyWi here during the day so that they don't get the DMCA notifications (and risk of getting their service canceled) from their home broadband provider (Cox Cable).
If these people want to pony up and pay for the bandwidth that they're using here, that's fine. But I bet they wont. And I also bet that overall speed for the AT&T 3G coverage where I spend the majority of my waking hours increases if they don't.
I dont give a crap. My speeds are great even with all that.
Oh, OK. You're one of those "hey, everything is great for *me*, so what the hell are YOU complaining about people". Cool.
I work in a decent sized office building where 3G speed isn't consistently great. I also know of at least four people that bring their personal laptops and torrent via MyWi here during the day so that they don't get the DMCA notifications (and risk of getting their service canceled) from their home broadband provider (Cox Cable).
If these people want to pony up and pay for the bandwidth that they're using here, that's fine. But I bet they wont. And I also bet that overall speed for the AT&T 3G coverage where I spend the majority of my waking hours increases if they don't.
CaoCao
Mar 26, 01:32 AM
I'm sorry, but did you really just say that relationships built on love are not stable? REALLY? Because I was always told that love conquers all. And I do believe that, because it does.
Love in it's purest form is what makes humans great. You don't even know what that word means.
Love conquers all until it hits a rough patch
au revoir
Love in it's purest form is what makes humans great. You don't even know what that word means.
Love conquers all until it hits a rough patch
au revoir
WiiDSmoker
Apr 20, 09:30 PM
So wait, you don't own a Mac or an iDevice but you post here constantly?
What's wrong with that? I may not own a particular product but like being in X products forums to learn about it.
What's wrong with that? I may not own a particular product but like being in X products forums to learn about it.
samcraig
Mar 18, 12:20 PM
Exactly what I was thinking. Screw the next 4 hours, for the next month I'm going to non-stop stream audio and video. I even disabled WiFi so I don't use my works connection I use only AT&T's.
Blow me ATT.
Netflix non-stop for the next month
And this accomplishes what - exactly?
Blow me ATT.
Netflix non-stop for the next month
And this accomplishes what - exactly?
awmazz
Mar 11, 02:36 AM
Watching NHK at the moment and the static camera showing live feed of the burning gas pipeline just kept shaking for two minutes and the newsreader said it was an aftershock.
NB. I guess the most critical things that can get damaged in Japan are the nuke power stations, the reports so far say none are leaking.
NB. I guess the most critical things that can get damaged in Japan are the nuke power stations, the reports so far say none are leaking.
gopher
Oct 9, 07:28 AM
If Windows XP didn't have so much spyware attached to it, and required registration, and the insecurity that Microsoft is so famous for on its systems (yes there are still as many bugs and holes in XP for hackers to get through as in Windows 2000 and before), and the fact remains none of the source code is open, where at least some of Mac OS X is open and free for development purposes, I would have gone to Microsoft. Speed doesn't matter a hill of beans if your machine is so insecure you can't trust your bank numbers to it. Macs are faster in some cases than Windows XP, while slower in others and they maintain a level of security that doesn't require a firewall or anti-virus program anywhere near as much as Windows XP does.
I'd rather fly an airplane than a space shuttle with o-rings that leak.
What's more, who really wants to be forced to support Microsoft?
With a Mac you can avoid Microsoft altogether.
I'd rather fly an airplane than a space shuttle with o-rings that leak.
What's more, who really wants to be forced to support Microsoft?
With a Mac you can avoid Microsoft altogether.
Macky-Mac
Apr 27, 01:11 PM
The books were selected nearly unanimously with the exception of a select few books of the bible.
Also, if they were divinely inspired (meaning God went through the trouble of having them written), w......Therefore, you either believe that there is a God and that the Bible is exactly what it is supposed to be, or you believe neither[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rt&Dzine;12470723]A slight correction: you either believe in the Biblical God and that the Bible is divinely inspired or you believe neither.
You can believe there is a God without believing the Judeo/Christian folklore.
It's entirely possible to believe in the Biblical God without any requirement to believe that the Bible is entirely divinely inspired.
Also, if they were divinely inspired (meaning God went through the trouble of having them written), w......Therefore, you either believe that there is a God and that the Bible is exactly what it is supposed to be, or you believe neither[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rt&Dzine;12470723]A slight correction: you either believe in the Biblical God and that the Bible is divinely inspired or you believe neither.
You can believe there is a God without believing the Judeo/Christian folklore.
It's entirely possible to believe in the Biblical God without any requirement to believe that the Bible is entirely divinely inspired.
BJNY
Nov 1, 05:14 PM
If one follows the link,
the cooler Clovertons are much lower GHz.
the cooler Clovertons are much lower GHz.
rasmasyean
Mar 15, 07:07 PM
Sorry doublepost but different topic now:
Wikileaks: Japan warned over nuclear plants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8384059/Japan-earthquake-Japan-warned-over-nuclear-plants-WikiLeaks-cables-show.html
Why does this not surprise me? Japan nuclear has a long history of coverups and poor operational procedures - including mixing nuclear fuel in a bucket and being surprised when it went critical.
Even the UK here has a long history of blunders and covering up - look at Windscale, later renamed Sellafield in a PR move. Some of the radiation leaks here were only revealed decades later.
Building reactors to a 1 accident in 1000 years standard of protection, as pushed by the industry PR, is just not good enough. Given 100 reactors, that equates to a serious issue every 10 years on average, and we already have far more than 100 reactors globally.
None of this stuff is ever "perfect". I'm sure the US has had it's share of "coverups" and "blunders" too even with all the "red tape" this country has. It's just that most people were keeping an eye on the part where they purposely blew them up! :p
No system is completely failproof. There's no such thing. You weigh the risk and then you accept them when it goes south.
Wikileaks: Japan warned over nuclear plants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8384059/Japan-earthquake-Japan-warned-over-nuclear-plants-WikiLeaks-cables-show.html
Why does this not surprise me? Japan nuclear has a long history of coverups and poor operational procedures - including mixing nuclear fuel in a bucket and being surprised when it went critical.
Even the UK here has a long history of blunders and covering up - look at Windscale, later renamed Sellafield in a PR move. Some of the radiation leaks here were only revealed decades later.
Building reactors to a 1 accident in 1000 years standard of protection, as pushed by the industry PR, is just not good enough. Given 100 reactors, that equates to a serious issue every 10 years on average, and we already have far more than 100 reactors globally.
None of this stuff is ever "perfect". I'm sure the US has had it's share of "coverups" and "blunders" too even with all the "red tape" this country has. It's just that most people were keeping an eye on the part where they purposely blew them up! :p
No system is completely failproof. There's no such thing. You weigh the risk and then you accept them when it goes south.
baryon
May 6, 01:42 PM
This is ridiculous, I have never had a dropped call in my life with O2 here in the UK, or with T-Mobile in the rest of Europe, except when going into tunnels, but that's totally normal!
iphonedev11
Feb 15, 03:05 PM
I can believe this, but only since the Android OS is open source. This means companies are making phones with their OS, not because its better. The iPhone is the superior phone, but Google is doing a great job at making the Android available to the masses.
gugy
Jul 12, 03:46 PM
A follow-up question: why the obsession with Photoshop, After Effects and Illustrator? There are other apps out there as well. Why does it seem that about 105% of Mac-users are Photoshop-users as well (I bet that PhotoShop-users are in fact in the minority)? Everything related to Apple, OS X and Macs seem to boil down to "but what about PhotoShop?". Well, what about it?
You are worried about the fact that Adobe's apps are not yet Universal? Fine, then don't buy a MacIntel. Problem solved.
wow, you just don't get it.
I am a freelance motion graphics designer. I work on many companies in L.A. and NY. After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator are their core applications. Plus many print designers relly on Photoshop and Illustrator. Those people will not jump on the Pro Mac as long as the Adobe apps are not universal.
Second, you still not mentioned what apps would substitute the Adobe trio mentioned above. So my answer to that is none.
If you are mainly a video editor, maybe it would be OK to upgrade because FCP will be universal, but I am talking about a major segment on the industry that solely relly on Adobe. This people will not jump on the bandwagon right away. This people wil not change and learn a new app just because the latest Mac is not suited for their needs. They will wait few more months.
So if you think Adobe apps can be substitute with something else on the professiopnal level, then you definately have no clue of what are you talking about.
You are worried about the fact that Adobe's apps are not yet Universal? Fine, then don't buy a MacIntel. Problem solved.
wow, you just don't get it.
I am a freelance motion graphics designer. I work on many companies in L.A. and NY. After Effects, Photoshop and Illustrator are their core applications. Plus many print designers relly on Photoshop and Illustrator. Those people will not jump on the Pro Mac as long as the Adobe apps are not universal.
Second, you still not mentioned what apps would substitute the Adobe trio mentioned above. So my answer to that is none.
If you are mainly a video editor, maybe it would be OK to upgrade because FCP will be universal, but I am talking about a major segment on the industry that solely relly on Adobe. This people will not jump on the bandwagon right away. This people wil not change and learn a new app just because the latest Mac is not suited for their needs. They will wait few more months.
So if you think Adobe apps can be substitute with something else on the professiopnal level, then you definately have no clue of what are you talking about.
Apple 26.2
Apr 15, 04:09 PM
Whatever differences exist, you'll get used to them.
kingtj
Aug 28, 10:46 AM
I *almost* feel guilty bashing AT&T at times, because 2 of my good friends have worked for them for years. But the company ALWAYS manages to infuriate me enough that I can't help myself. One of the two of them USED to try to defend AT&T when I started in on it, but even he has given up now - because the situations I keep describing to him are ones he simply can't make excuses for.
Here in St. Louis, MO - we don't have the notorious dropped call problems of parts of downtown Chicago or New York City, but it's still pretty bad! I had the original iPhone and then the 3G, and I could expect it to lose about every other call I made or answered. I can't say the iPhone's design didn't contribute to it, but all I know is, my friends on AT&T's network using other phones like the Motorola Razr told me they experienced pretty much the same thing.
We were using AT&T for cellphones, T1 data and voice circuits and regular land-lines where I work, plus advertising in the AT&T Yellow Pages, and NONE of it has been a good experience!
My "dedicated key corporate account representative" is notorious for never answering her office phone and not returning phone calls. SOMETIMES she'll email you a reply to a question or request after a few days, and other times? She might just forward it to someone else in her dept. who may or may not follow up. About the only time she made an appearance and acted like she cared was when AT&T gave her a "mission", such as getting her corporate customers to answer and send back some survey they were putting together. It was like pulling teeth to even get the company to call back to remind us when contracts were up for renewal!
Every year, we seem to have a new Yellow Pages sales rep. because whoever was assigned to us before has moved on to a new job.... It gets really old re-explaining everything about the business every year.
On the iPhone accounts, AT&T can't even seem to figure out what some of their pricing plans are for!? One of our iPhones was being billed about $10 a month more than the others because they configured it on a "corporate" plan they claimed was necessary for using it with our Exchange server. (Funny, but Exchange email worked just fine without this "extra" on the other phones!) When I questioned them, they couldn't pin down a reason for the "up charge". I finally determined it was simply an extra fee AT&T likes to try to talk businesses into paying, yet it serves no real purpose. It's probably just based on some theory that iPhone users connected to corporate Exchange servers will use more data than other people, so they'd like to get more money out of them. I finally got someone to remove the charge and the phone still works exactly like it did before!
I have consistently had problems with dropped calls ever since I switched from the original iPhone to the iPhone 3GS, they replaced my phone twice because of it. It would work for a while, but then drop calls, or get 10 call failures before actually placing a call, just to be dropped minutes later...
Yesterday I finally upgraded to 4.0.2 and it is even worse! Not only do I barely get any signal in my house, even when it shows I have a signal it still doesn't work. The problem seems to be when it goes into sleep mode it disconnects, because when I unlock it, a swarm of text messages and voice mails from missed calls I never received pour in...
I finally called up AT&T to see if there was anything they could do (maybe give me one of the femtocells to keep my 5 iPhone family plan happy (bill is almost $300 a month)... I was greeted by an unfriendly and unhelpful customer service agent. She pretty much told me there was nothing she could do (and when I asked about the femtocell she had no idea what it was, didn't even offer for me to buy it), and then she said its just the network, it happens to her all the time, I am probably in an area with poor coverage.
I told her to look it up on the AT&T coverage map it shows "best coverage" all around my house and where I live, pretty much most of Long Island. To which she said "coverage is not at all guaranteed", I flipped a bird and said "what the fu*k does that even mean, so I can get an at&t phone and pay for the service and you can't even guarantee I get service in any location around the world, even if you advertise it" to which she responded "yup". And I said, that's just ridiculous, I might as well switch to a carrier such as sprint or verizion (my parents have one of each) and they get service in our household. And then she said "Go ahead and switch". I don't remember exactly what I said after that, but she followed with other dumb remarks, such as, it could just be what your house is made of, or do you live underground? I'm sure I live in a cave lady... But I really can't bash all the Customer service agents at AT&T, some are great and very helpful.
Never the less, I was very pissed and disappointed with how AT&T is handling itself. Never have I had such poor customer service. When I had nextel and complained about their crappy service, they were very apologetic and offered me free stuff, and even if I never mentioned dropping them, but even hinted at the possibility, they would offer me upgrades and the works just to keep me... AT&T is just hit or miss, when the network works, its great and super fast, but if your in a high traffic or any other area, its the pits... Which is why I think people on the forums have such a hard time understanding these complaints. I bet the reason for the big change in satisfaction surveys has to do with geographic location. When I was in any other state but NY the service worked when it said I had service, but even then I could have full service, travel 10ft and get No service to show up on the iPhone, very spotty at best.
I am definitely going to switch my entire family plan over to verizion when our contracts are up in a year, I really hope they get the iPhone, if not, droid here I come! But to the rest of the community, has this ever happened to anyone else but me? Should I call back AT&T, at this point I would be willing to buy the femtocell, my phone doesn't work in passive mode, only gets service when I am on it and unlocked.
EDIT:
I actually looked up the femtocell, which is now called microcell to make sure I wasn't going crazy and to see if it is available in my area (which it is), and I saw a video that I just find hilarious! If you go to the following link and click on "increased signal strength" in the interactive video that loads on AT&T website for the microcell, it starts to play a video that actually shows how crappy their service is, with the guy having to hang out of the window to make a call... WTF? AT&T should fire whoever makes their commercials...
Check it out: http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/3gmicrocell/
Here in St. Louis, MO - we don't have the notorious dropped call problems of parts of downtown Chicago or New York City, but it's still pretty bad! I had the original iPhone and then the 3G, and I could expect it to lose about every other call I made or answered. I can't say the iPhone's design didn't contribute to it, but all I know is, my friends on AT&T's network using other phones like the Motorola Razr told me they experienced pretty much the same thing.
We were using AT&T for cellphones, T1 data and voice circuits and regular land-lines where I work, plus advertising in the AT&T Yellow Pages, and NONE of it has been a good experience!
My "dedicated key corporate account representative" is notorious for never answering her office phone and not returning phone calls. SOMETIMES she'll email you a reply to a question or request after a few days, and other times? She might just forward it to someone else in her dept. who may or may not follow up. About the only time she made an appearance and acted like she cared was when AT&T gave her a "mission", such as getting her corporate customers to answer and send back some survey they were putting together. It was like pulling teeth to even get the company to call back to remind us when contracts were up for renewal!
Every year, we seem to have a new Yellow Pages sales rep. because whoever was assigned to us before has moved on to a new job.... It gets really old re-explaining everything about the business every year.
On the iPhone accounts, AT&T can't even seem to figure out what some of their pricing plans are for!? One of our iPhones was being billed about $10 a month more than the others because they configured it on a "corporate" plan they claimed was necessary for using it with our Exchange server. (Funny, but Exchange email worked just fine without this "extra" on the other phones!) When I questioned them, they couldn't pin down a reason for the "up charge". I finally determined it was simply an extra fee AT&T likes to try to talk businesses into paying, yet it serves no real purpose. It's probably just based on some theory that iPhone users connected to corporate Exchange servers will use more data than other people, so they'd like to get more money out of them. I finally got someone to remove the charge and the phone still works exactly like it did before!
I have consistently had problems with dropped calls ever since I switched from the original iPhone to the iPhone 3GS, they replaced my phone twice because of it. It would work for a while, but then drop calls, or get 10 call failures before actually placing a call, just to be dropped minutes later...
Yesterday I finally upgraded to 4.0.2 and it is even worse! Not only do I barely get any signal in my house, even when it shows I have a signal it still doesn't work. The problem seems to be when it goes into sleep mode it disconnects, because when I unlock it, a swarm of text messages and voice mails from missed calls I never received pour in...
I finally called up AT&T to see if there was anything they could do (maybe give me one of the femtocells to keep my 5 iPhone family plan happy (bill is almost $300 a month)... I was greeted by an unfriendly and unhelpful customer service agent. She pretty much told me there was nothing she could do (and when I asked about the femtocell she had no idea what it was, didn't even offer for me to buy it), and then she said its just the network, it happens to her all the time, I am probably in an area with poor coverage.
I told her to look it up on the AT&T coverage map it shows "best coverage" all around my house and where I live, pretty much most of Long Island. To which she said "coverage is not at all guaranteed", I flipped a bird and said "what the fu*k does that even mean, so I can get an at&t phone and pay for the service and you can't even guarantee I get service in any location around the world, even if you advertise it" to which she responded "yup". And I said, that's just ridiculous, I might as well switch to a carrier such as sprint or verizion (my parents have one of each) and they get service in our household. And then she said "Go ahead and switch". I don't remember exactly what I said after that, but she followed with other dumb remarks, such as, it could just be what your house is made of, or do you live underground? I'm sure I live in a cave lady... But I really can't bash all the Customer service agents at AT&T, some are great and very helpful.
Never the less, I was very pissed and disappointed with how AT&T is handling itself. Never have I had such poor customer service. When I had nextel and complained about their crappy service, they were very apologetic and offered me free stuff, and even if I never mentioned dropping them, but even hinted at the possibility, they would offer me upgrades and the works just to keep me... AT&T is just hit or miss, when the network works, its great and super fast, but if your in a high traffic or any other area, its the pits... Which is why I think people on the forums have such a hard time understanding these complaints. I bet the reason for the big change in satisfaction surveys has to do with geographic location. When I was in any other state but NY the service worked when it said I had service, but even then I could have full service, travel 10ft and get No service to show up on the iPhone, very spotty at best.
I am definitely going to switch my entire family plan over to verizion when our contracts are up in a year, I really hope they get the iPhone, if not, droid here I come! But to the rest of the community, has this ever happened to anyone else but me? Should I call back AT&T, at this point I would be willing to buy the femtocell, my phone doesn't work in passive mode, only gets service when I am on it and unlocked.
EDIT:
I actually looked up the femtocell, which is now called microcell to make sure I wasn't going crazy and to see if it is available in my area (which it is), and I saw a video that I just find hilarious! If you go to the following link and click on "increased signal strength" in the interactive video that loads on AT&T website for the microcell, it starts to play a video that actually shows how crappy their service is, with the guy having to hang out of the window to make a call... WTF? AT&T should fire whoever makes their commercials...
Check it out: http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/3gmicrocell/
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