Matthew Yohe
Apr 7, 10:23 PM
Quota? Are these guys idiots?
Best Buy isn't the only place to buy these... I've thought through the various marketing gimmicks, and really none apply here. Why would they do this...
Best Buy isn't the only place to buy these... I've thought through the various marketing gimmicks, and really none apply here. Why would they do this...
NAG
Mar 31, 02:56 PM
If there's any truth to the Google Android prototype phone being Blackberry-like, then Google is merely pulling a Microsoft by copying Apple's success. Otherwise, why wouldn't Google have continued down that path?
What do you mean "if"? (http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/12/a-visual-tour-of-androids-ui/)
What do you mean "if"? (http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/12/a-visual-tour-of-androids-ui/)
skunk
Aug 6, 01:45 PM
Um, http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=odbjam.2.2Apple is described as an "Applicant".
kdarling
Apr 6, 03:01 PM
But he then said after how well it would work on the phone, they put the tablet project on the shelf and focused on the phone as it was more important. Which means it was a tablet and no just a touch screen device in the beginning.
Sure, it could've been a full tablet. It just didn't have iOS, is my point.
People misremember a lot. You know how it goes: a story always gets better as time goes by :)
For example, in the later tablet version we are told that seeing kinetic scrolling on the demo made him want for Apple to build a touch phone:
“I had this idea about having a glass display, a multitouch display you could type on with your fingers. I asked our folks: could we come up with a multitouch display that we could type on? And six months later, they came back with this prototype display. And I gave it to one of our really brilliant UI guys and he called me back a few weeks later and had intertial scrolling working and I thought, ‘my God, we can build a phone with this!’ So we put the tablet on the shelf… and we went to work on the iPhone.”
Yet, years before in one of the first iPhone articles in we were told that kinetic scrolling came later on:
"At one point, Mr. Jobs got a call from one of the iPhone engineers with an idea: Why not allow iPhone users to navigate through both song collections and contacts stored on the device by simply flicking their fingers up and down across the surface of the touch-screen? The engineer gave Mr. Jobs a demonstration of the technology, and the Apple chief executive signed off on it immediately, according to a person familiar with the process."
I'd love one day for a definitive history to come out, so we can know the full timing, and also credit those unsung engineers who actually invented it all.
Sure, it could've been a full tablet. It just didn't have iOS, is my point.
People misremember a lot. You know how it goes: a story always gets better as time goes by :)
For example, in the later tablet version we are told that seeing kinetic scrolling on the demo made him want for Apple to build a touch phone:
“I had this idea about having a glass display, a multitouch display you could type on with your fingers. I asked our folks: could we come up with a multitouch display that we could type on? And six months later, they came back with this prototype display. And I gave it to one of our really brilliant UI guys and he called me back a few weeks later and had intertial scrolling working and I thought, ‘my God, we can build a phone with this!’ So we put the tablet on the shelf… and we went to work on the iPhone.”
Yet, years before in one of the first iPhone articles in we were told that kinetic scrolling came later on:
"At one point, Mr. Jobs got a call from one of the iPhone engineers with an idea: Why not allow iPhone users to navigate through both song collections and contacts stored on the device by simply flicking their fingers up and down across the surface of the touch-screen? The engineer gave Mr. Jobs a demonstration of the technology, and the Apple chief executive signed off on it immediately, according to a person familiar with the process."
I'd love one day for a definitive history to come out, so we can know the full timing, and also credit those unsung engineers who actually invented it all.
bedifferent
Mar 26, 02:54 PM
My bet is on distribution on custom design USB drives, like this one (http://molotalk.com/new-macbook-air-ships-with-custom-printed-software-reinstall-usb-drive/).
Great for now, but Apple wants to keep going green by slowly eliminating DVD/physical media as done with CD's. ISP's are improving bandwidth (slowly), companies are decreasing the size of their software (some like Adobe and Apple breaking Suites for individual applications) so wireless downloading may prevail.
I do not have any installation DVD's aide from the two which came with my 2010 Mac Pro.
1. All my applications are on another hard drive (3rd SATA bay on my 6-Core Pro, but can easily use an external drive).
2. "Time Machine" backs up all the applications
3. Purchased software almost always emails you a receipt with download links in case you need to re-download an application (plus allowed updates)
4. Instead of installing from a DVD, mount the .dmg and install, much faster.
5. I replace applications with their online updates in lieu of adding another DVD
I've got 150+ applications (Mac and Windows) totaling 187 GB. As with a media library, images are shrinking, downloads are faster (if you can download a 1.5+ movie through Netflix or iTunes, you can easily download software, OS X updates are large sizes as well).
In short, DVD's and USB drives for application installations will eventually fade out. If you need to install an OS from scratch, I'm certain Apple will still package the original DVD's with your computer (or in this case a thumb drive). I'm interested in learning what Apple intends to do with that new server farm in N.C. Storage of applications and/or the rumored storing of your media for access anywhere with an iDevice or Mac/OC.
Great for now, but Apple wants to keep going green by slowly eliminating DVD/physical media as done with CD's. ISP's are improving bandwidth (slowly), companies are decreasing the size of their software (some like Adobe and Apple breaking Suites for individual applications) so wireless downloading may prevail.
I do not have any installation DVD's aide from the two which came with my 2010 Mac Pro.
1. All my applications are on another hard drive (3rd SATA bay on my 6-Core Pro, but can easily use an external drive).
2. "Time Machine" backs up all the applications
3. Purchased software almost always emails you a receipt with download links in case you need to re-download an application (plus allowed updates)
4. Instead of installing from a DVD, mount the .dmg and install, much faster.
5. I replace applications with their online updates in lieu of adding another DVD
I've got 150+ applications (Mac and Windows) totaling 187 GB. As with a media library, images are shrinking, downloads are faster (if you can download a 1.5+ movie through Netflix or iTunes, you can easily download software, OS X updates are large sizes as well).
In short, DVD's and USB drives for application installations will eventually fade out. If you need to install an OS from scratch, I'm certain Apple will still package the original DVD's with your computer (or in this case a thumb drive). I'm interested in learning what Apple intends to do with that new server farm in N.C. Storage of applications and/or the rumored storing of your media for access anywhere with an iDevice or Mac/OC.
amin
Aug 19, 09:42 AM
You make good points. I guess we'll learn more as more information becomes available.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
PhantomPumpkin
Apr 27, 10:24 AM
Laugh all you want, but they are being sensible. If the media hype gets too great, they act, as they should.
I have no antenna issue with my iPhone 4, and I don't use a case or a bumper. I understand what Apple meant by calling it a non-issue.
Apple did not track you, it sent anonymized cell tower location information back to itself. But there was a bug that kept a locally-stored database file from being culled from all but the most recent data. So they will now provide an update to fix that bug.
But if you want to pretend that Apple is in denial mode, and use exclamation points as if your hair were on fire, go right ahead. You nicely prove the point I was just making with samcraig.
Don't you just love it? Apple identifies an potential issue, and does something to remedy it, and they get yelled at for doing so. If they do nothing, they get yelled at for doing nothing.
Catch 22.
I have no antenna issue with my iPhone 4, and I don't use a case or a bumper. I understand what Apple meant by calling it a non-issue.
Apple did not track you, it sent anonymized cell tower location information back to itself. But there was a bug that kept a locally-stored database file from being culled from all but the most recent data. So they will now provide an update to fix that bug.
But if you want to pretend that Apple is in denial mode, and use exclamation points as if your hair were on fire, go right ahead. You nicely prove the point I was just making with samcraig.
Don't you just love it? Apple identifies an potential issue, and does something to remedy it, and they get yelled at for doing so. If they do nothing, they get yelled at for doing nothing.
Catch 22.
Maccus Aurelius
Sep 19, 12:14 PM
I'm finding it hilarious that you can put yourself into Stevie's reality distortion field even after the Intel switch. Maybe while Apple had PPC, you could have said that. But now that direct hardware comparisons can be made, don't you think it's stupid that sub-$1000 PC notebooks have better processors than the best Apple has to offer?
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
I don't see too many laptops that are sub $1000 that offer Core 2 Duo at the moment. Alienware has one that costs just about that much. Dell's XPS is the only laptop line with C2D, which are generally more costly than the Macbook Pros, even the 17". At the very least, apple has already equipped some of their computers with 64-bit support where it would probably benefit the most. The Mac Pro will obviously be the most likely to see great benefits from it. The imac, too, will see more benefit. but seeing as how macbooks and macbook pros are just coming out of their hardware glitches, i think its better to iron out those issues before stuffing new chips into them.
And yes, the MBP is a top-of-the-line laptop. Apart from 2'' thick behemoths, it was one of the fastest portables around, and it was priced accordingly. Now it's still priced as such, but times are moving, technology is advancing, and if you compare pound for pound, the MBP is behind.
I don't see too many laptops that are sub $1000 that offer Core 2 Duo at the moment. Alienware has one that costs just about that much. Dell's XPS is the only laptop line with C2D, which are generally more costly than the Macbook Pros, even the 17". At the very least, apple has already equipped some of their computers with 64-bit support where it would probably benefit the most. The Mac Pro will obviously be the most likely to see great benefits from it. The imac, too, will see more benefit. but seeing as how macbooks and macbook pros are just coming out of their hardware glitches, i think its better to iron out those issues before stuffing new chips into them.
bobsentell
Apr 7, 11:32 PM
Meh. Makes room for HP's inventory. You know, the company that sells more computers than any other company. :D
jephrey
Jul 14, 11:47 PM
I assume that the PS move is due to heat. That thing generates heat, and if it can vent in a different location or through a different air channel than the processors, the I think that's good... And 2 drive bays is effin spectacular. I myself am fine with 1, but if I can get a bracket and put a couple HDs in that spot then cool. It'd be cool if apple made it usable that way. I would sure like more bays, but just having that real estate for them, and a solution to cleanly mount them would be nice.
Jephrey
Jephrey
ergle2
Sep 18, 11:57 PM
Key word being DESKTOPS.
MP machines were server based long before they were included in desktops. I'd like to see where people had dual Xeon based DESKTOPS 'cause I've never seen it. It's not impossible but it's also not a good cost-based answer either. :p
I've known many people with multi-processor machines on their desktop, with a variety of processor families -- including Intel -- going way back over the best part of a decade. If your requirements include applications that can make use of it, it can make sense. Time is money and all that.
One market I'm aware of is the fluid dynamics market, which pretty much eats all the processor time you can throw at it.
I even had an x86 dual CPU machine at home back in 1999... I still have it, it's just not that fast any more...
Of course, these days everyone and his dog has dual-core, pretty much...
Edit: 2nd para clarified
MP machines were server based long before they were included in desktops. I'd like to see where people had dual Xeon based DESKTOPS 'cause I've never seen it. It's not impossible but it's also not a good cost-based answer either. :p
I've known many people with multi-processor machines on their desktop, with a variety of processor families -- including Intel -- going way back over the best part of a decade. If your requirements include applications that can make use of it, it can make sense. Time is money and all that.
One market I'm aware of is the fluid dynamics market, which pretty much eats all the processor time you can throw at it.
I even had an x86 dual CPU machine at home back in 1999... I still have it, it's just not that fast any more...
Of course, these days everyone and his dog has dual-core, pretty much...
Edit: 2nd para clarified
�algiris
Mar 26, 02:25 AM
Been on Lion for the past month and I can't see myself going back to Snow Leopard.
Same here. Buggy as hell, but i like what i see.
Same here. Buggy as hell, but i like what i see.
Kane.Elson
Jul 29, 03:42 AM
Love this news. Just what I was expecting and one of the main reasons to have waited for Core 2 Duo mobile Macs. :)
Ahh the rewards of waiting.
The performance increase and the 64-bit sounded good but this just makes me grin about the fact that I waited. I can never get enough battery life.
Ahh the rewards of waiting.
The performance increase and the 64-bit sounded good but this just makes me grin about the fact that I waited. I can never get enough battery life.
SuperCachetes
Mar 5, 07:30 PM
The same model applies to the 'church'.
They are on the wane, and need new conscripts.
Gays are less likely to give them that.
That's (sadly) believable. See, now you're talking. I knew you didn't always pop round just to throw a cheeky non sequitur into the works. ;)
They are on the wane, and need new conscripts.
Gays are less likely to give them that.
That's (sadly) believable. See, now you're talking. I knew you didn't always pop round just to throw a cheeky non sequitur into the works. ;)
nilk
Apr 6, 04:14 PM
I run a Windows VM with 1 GB of dedicated memory and a Linux VM with 1.5 GB of dedicated memory. All while Xcode is open and doing something in every OS.
Seriously, software development is about the less ressource hungry task you can do on modern computers. Browsers use more system ressources nowadays than code editors/compilers/debuggers.
Totally depends on what tools you are using. Sure, when I'm at home working on a light webapp running nothing but Emacs, Chrome, Postgres, and using, for example, Python as my server-side language, 4GB of RAM is more than enough, hell I could get by with 2GB no problem.
But at work I have open: Eclipse, one or more instance of Tomcat or Jetty, Oracle SQL Developer (Java app), Windows VM with Visual Studio and other tools, and maybe a Linux VM running Oracle. I always have the Windows VM running. When I had 4GB, things would drag, and I couldn't run the Linux VM without my system becoming unusable. Now that I have 8GB things run great; I can afford to give my Windows VM over 2GB, and I don't notice the difference between running and not running my Linux VM. Sometimes I have as many as 3 VMs running using over 3GB RAM in total and things are still smooth unless there's a lot of hard drive access going on.
But it's encourage to know that you're successfully using a MBA w/ 4GB even with VMs eating up half your RAM. Maybe the SSD makes a huge difference.
Seriously, software development is about the less ressource hungry task you can do on modern computers. Browsers use more system ressources nowadays than code editors/compilers/debuggers.
Totally depends on what tools you are using. Sure, when I'm at home working on a light webapp running nothing but Emacs, Chrome, Postgres, and using, for example, Python as my server-side language, 4GB of RAM is more than enough, hell I could get by with 2GB no problem.
But at work I have open: Eclipse, one or more instance of Tomcat or Jetty, Oracle SQL Developer (Java app), Windows VM with Visual Studio and other tools, and maybe a Linux VM running Oracle. I always have the Windows VM running. When I had 4GB, things would drag, and I couldn't run the Linux VM without my system becoming unusable. Now that I have 8GB things run great; I can afford to give my Windows VM over 2GB, and I don't notice the difference between running and not running my Linux VM. Sometimes I have as many as 3 VMs running using over 3GB RAM in total and things are still smooth unless there's a lot of hard drive access going on.
But it's encourage to know that you're successfully using a MBA w/ 4GB even with VMs eating up half your RAM. Maybe the SSD makes a huge difference.
-SD-
Aug 18, 05:14 AM
So Japan is getting GT5 on November 3rd too, but at least they get a nifty Titanium Blue console and Ltd Edition game bundle. (http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/18/ps3-gets-titanium-blue-makeover-for-gran-turismo-5-launch-bundle/)
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/08/10x08189ub234tewfja.jpg
:apple:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/08/10x08189ub234tewfja.jpg
:apple:
OllyW
Mar 26, 06:54 AM
Got to wait for the results from the beta testers who buy 10.7 on release. Learn the lessons of 10.6, I waited until 10.6.2 was out!
I'll get it and try it on the release day but I'll have a clone of my Snow Leopard HD ready incase it all goes tits up. :)
I'll get it and try it on the release day but I'll have a clone of my Snow Leopard HD ready incase it all goes tits up. :)
Tommyg117
Aug 5, 09:51 PM
Come on iPod and iPhone! and Mac Pro with blu ray!
thunng8
Aug 31, 09:15 PM
Check it out!
http://barefeats.com/quad06.html
The 3 ghz Mac Pro is neck and neck with the G5 Quad in the Adobe benchmarks, sick considering the fact it's running under rosetta!!
It is worth noting that Barefeats has updated their comparison using much more typical photoshop operations:
http://www.barefeats.com/quad11.html
Which shows a much different picture, with the PowerPC models outperforming the MacPro by a significant margin.
http://barefeats.com/quad06.html
The 3 ghz Mac Pro is neck and neck with the G5 Quad in the Adobe benchmarks, sick considering the fact it's running under rosetta!!
It is worth noting that Barefeats has updated their comparison using much more typical photoshop operations:
http://www.barefeats.com/quad11.html
Which shows a much different picture, with the PowerPC models outperforming the MacPro by a significant margin.
SuperCachetes
Mar 1, 04:36 PM
But they are treated equal, any gay man can marry a woman and any lesbian woman can marry a man just as any heterosexual man can marry a woman and any heterosexual woman can marry a man
And yet, not. :rolleyes:
Not being able to marry the human being you are attracted to, love, and want to spend the rest of your life with? Doesn't sound too equal to me.
Glad most of the other civil rights issues are taken care of - you would be the one claiming "But people in a wheelchair are treated equally! They have every right to use the same stairs as ambulatory people!" Good grief.
And yet, not. :rolleyes:
Not being able to marry the human being you are attracted to, love, and want to spend the rest of your life with? Doesn't sound too equal to me.
Glad most of the other civil rights issues are taken care of - you would be the one claiming "But people in a wheelchair are treated equally! They have every right to use the same stairs as ambulatory people!" Good grief.
slackpacker
Apr 25, 02:25 PM
Honestly If this does not bug you it should Apple along with Law enforcement have know about this they have been using devices to read this info and use it against the Phones owners if the info proves useful. Good I totally support a lawsuit Apple should be embarrassed and ashamed this is a big deal. Nothing should trace where your going and keep a record. This info can also be used by criminals but the true criminal here is Law Enforcement since they knew about this info and used it against suspects.
Please take note suspects are not criminals they are you and me and getting pulled over or involved with the Police. It can happen to anyone for many reasons other than causing a crime.
Apple has just brought us the closest we have EVER been to 1984.
Protect our Freedoms
Please take note suspects are not criminals they are you and me and getting pulled over or involved with the Police. It can happen to anyone for many reasons other than causing a crime.
Apple has just brought us the closest we have EVER been to 1984.
Protect our Freedoms
ergle2
Sep 21, 03:17 PM
I had the pleasure of meeting Jef Raskin at his home in Pacifica a year before he passed away. He loved to play musical instruments and performed a short recital on his piano. Later that evening, after showing his Apple I in a wooden box, he encouraged me to read his book The Humane Interface and let him know what I thought about it. Sadly, I wasn't able to do that in time. But the conversation we had made it clear that he was not a fan of Steve Jobs. They both had strong opinions on various aspects of UI design. Even though I rather like OS X, Raskin politely argued against the inefficiencies of that design.
It was some time ago and I don't remember all the details from that night, but Raskin, I think, was more scientific in his approach. He preferred to study user response rates, time-to-decision, amount of eye movement, amount of pointer movement, number of mouse clicks, and various other factors that might contribute to 'dead' or wasted time.
It doesn't surprise me he was no fan of Jobs, especially given the history of the original Mac. From people I know who've worked with Jobs, he's not always easy to get along with.
From what I've read, the Mac was fundamentally quite different from Raskin's original vision after Jobs took over the project, though some of his ideas were obviously incorporated into it. (I believe Raskin wanted to go with the cheaper but obviously slower 6809).
His book's been one I've meant to track down for some time now. You know how it is, so many things to do/see...
The Archy interface modelled on his concepts is quite interesting, too.
I was sorry when we lost Jef, I feel he was one of those people striving to make the world a better place.
What did you think of The Humane Design?
It was some time ago and I don't remember all the details from that night, but Raskin, I think, was more scientific in his approach. He preferred to study user response rates, time-to-decision, amount of eye movement, amount of pointer movement, number of mouse clicks, and various other factors that might contribute to 'dead' or wasted time.
It doesn't surprise me he was no fan of Jobs, especially given the history of the original Mac. From people I know who've worked with Jobs, he's not always easy to get along with.
From what I've read, the Mac was fundamentally quite different from Raskin's original vision after Jobs took over the project, though some of his ideas were obviously incorporated into it. (I believe Raskin wanted to go with the cheaper but obviously slower 6809).
His book's been one I've meant to track down for some time now. You know how it is, so many things to do/see...
The Archy interface modelled on his concepts is quite interesting, too.
I was sorry when we lost Jef, I feel he was one of those people striving to make the world a better place.
What did you think of The Humane Design?
xStep
Apr 11, 08:20 PM
There are thousands if not more of us who would gladly pony up and stick with Apple.
Nailed it
Difinitely not. I won't say where I'd agree and disagree with for the rest of it, but that last sentence isn't right. Thousands implies a rather low number. Not nearly enough revenue for Apple to keep working on FCS. ;)
Nailed it
Difinitely not. I won't say where I'd agree and disagree with for the rest of it, but that last sentence isn't right. Thousands implies a rather low number. Not nearly enough revenue for Apple to keep working on FCS. ;)
mcgillmaine
Jun 23, 07:46 AM
NC RS's know nothing. Maybe today will be different when I call. We have 3 stores selling the phone out of maybe 10. I talked to one and he told me that what ever they get will be on 1st come bases.
So I'm not sure if my best bet is just to camp out at the apple store from which I hear will be getting a lot for "walk ins".
Also i'm trying to buy two phones so if ugp is right about most stores getting 3-5. I'm sure if any pre orders are wrote down at those stores, My chances are slim to none.
So I'm not sure if my best bet is just to camp out at the apple store from which I hear will be getting a lot for "walk ins".
Also i'm trying to buy two phones so if ugp is right about most stores getting 3-5. I'm sure if any pre orders are wrote down at those stores, My chances are slim to none.
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