barneygumble
Jul 17, 07:43 PM
All i can say is that i will buy a Core 2 Duo iMac when they come out and my parents will be buying a Core 2 Duo tower if such a thing is introduced (not mac pro):)
kanedavid
Apr 29, 07:55 PM
Microsoft is still doing very well. They're making the best products they ever have done and as a customer I am very pleased with all of my Microsoft purchases.
All great products and deserve to be class leaders if they are not already. I can't think of another company (including Apple) that has put out such a fantastic range of very good products.
You forget one thing neiltc13.... not many people seem to share your views:
� Zune Desktop Software.... way more people prefer the iTunes ecosphere (which isn't perfect either mind you).
� Zune Hardware... This is clearly a product flop... just like M$ and it's PlaysForSure DRM. Apple's iPod after 10 years still blitzes the portable music device market.
� Windows Phone 7... Yes, Windows 7 is a significant improvement over any previous boost phone OS from M$... a shame that they had to really copy the whole "multi-touch" concept from someone else. But M$ has a long way to catch up with Apple and Google with their offerings and as yet, it would suggest that Apple and Google are still better than M$.
� Windows 7... It's a LOT better than anything M$ has released in the past. All credit to them on this one. But it's uptake hasn't really been all that good though and Microsoft continues to do the "value-add" model by charging more for greater feature sets across it various Windows editions... Too many choices for people that don't understand. Just make one version and price it at $99 and they'll get a much better uptake.
� Office 2010... Yes, it's WAY better than any offering from other companies (for Excel at least). Not sure that Office 2010 is necessarily better than Office 2007 though.
� Office 2001 for Mac - Yes, especially Outlook 2011 for Mac. There was never any reason why Microsoft could not have upgraded it's old Classic Mac version of Outlook 2001 all along rather than develop it's Entourage product which in my opinion was always Microsofts half-assed way of limiting Mac Support in an attempt to marginalise the Mac platform. Guess what? It hasn't really worked so now Microsoft have realised that the best approach is to try and embrace the fact that Apple's Mac OS isn't going away anytime soon so it might as well support it properly.
� Xbox 360 - It's a pretty good product, but compared to the other two 7th generation Game Consoles (PS3/Wii), XBOX trails in third place in all markets except the US where it is second behind Wii.
� Xbox Live - Still an immature product (along with Sony's and Wii's equivalent!). I don't think ANY of the current offerings are that good really but Microsoft has a LOT more experience in internet technologies so you'd expect that Microsoft should be able to come up with something that is better than it is.
Microsoft's problem is that it struggles to actually invent something that appeals to consumers in a way that allows them to command a higher price until the market matures. Technology is a tough market to be in because most technology products fall in value dramatically when a product matures, and margins become very thin and in many cases unsustainable. The only real way to make a lot of dosh in technology is to continually be innovative and invent something new that captivates people. Simply copying someone else all the time won't cut it.
Apple started it's revolution with the iPod well before most other MP3 players came out and so it commanded a higher price (therefore profits) than conventional music devices of the time (CD Discman, Minidisc etc) had. Then just as all the me-too players jumped on the bandwagon, Apple move onto it's next innovation... iTunes Store... then iPhone... then App Store... and now the iPad.
When Microsoft goes back to it's heyday and starts being innovative like Apple and Google are now, they'll again start making a lot more money again.
All great products and deserve to be class leaders if they are not already. I can't think of another company (including Apple) that has put out such a fantastic range of very good products.
You forget one thing neiltc13.... not many people seem to share your views:
� Zune Desktop Software.... way more people prefer the iTunes ecosphere (which isn't perfect either mind you).
� Zune Hardware... This is clearly a product flop... just like M$ and it's PlaysForSure DRM. Apple's iPod after 10 years still blitzes the portable music device market.
� Windows Phone 7... Yes, Windows 7 is a significant improvement over any previous boost phone OS from M$... a shame that they had to really copy the whole "multi-touch" concept from someone else. But M$ has a long way to catch up with Apple and Google with their offerings and as yet, it would suggest that Apple and Google are still better than M$.
� Windows 7... It's a LOT better than anything M$ has released in the past. All credit to them on this one. But it's uptake hasn't really been all that good though and Microsoft continues to do the "value-add" model by charging more for greater feature sets across it various Windows editions... Too many choices for people that don't understand. Just make one version and price it at $99 and they'll get a much better uptake.
� Office 2010... Yes, it's WAY better than any offering from other companies (for Excel at least). Not sure that Office 2010 is necessarily better than Office 2007 though.
� Office 2001 for Mac - Yes, especially Outlook 2011 for Mac. There was never any reason why Microsoft could not have upgraded it's old Classic Mac version of Outlook 2001 all along rather than develop it's Entourage product which in my opinion was always Microsofts half-assed way of limiting Mac Support in an attempt to marginalise the Mac platform. Guess what? It hasn't really worked so now Microsoft have realised that the best approach is to try and embrace the fact that Apple's Mac OS isn't going away anytime soon so it might as well support it properly.
� Xbox 360 - It's a pretty good product, but compared to the other two 7th generation Game Consoles (PS3/Wii), XBOX trails in third place in all markets except the US where it is second behind Wii.
� Xbox Live - Still an immature product (along with Sony's and Wii's equivalent!). I don't think ANY of the current offerings are that good really but Microsoft has a LOT more experience in internet technologies so you'd expect that Microsoft should be able to come up with something that is better than it is.
Microsoft's problem is that it struggles to actually invent something that appeals to consumers in a way that allows them to command a higher price until the market matures. Technology is a tough market to be in because most technology products fall in value dramatically when a product matures, and margins become very thin and in many cases unsustainable. The only real way to make a lot of dosh in technology is to continually be innovative and invent something new that captivates people. Simply copying someone else all the time won't cut it.
Apple started it's revolution with the iPod well before most other MP3 players came out and so it commanded a higher price (therefore profits) than conventional music devices of the time (CD Discman, Minidisc etc) had. Then just as all the me-too players jumped on the bandwagon, Apple move onto it's next innovation... iTunes Store... then iPhone... then App Store... and now the iPad.
When Microsoft goes back to it's heyday and starts being innovative like Apple and Google are now, they'll again start making a lot more money again.
Eidorian
Sep 9, 01:26 PM
Preemble clarification: I use Toast in a highly unorthodox way - nothing to do with writing DVDs or CDs. I use it most of the time to write DVD IMAGES that Handbrake understands how to make priistine mp4 files from. I am able to reduce a 4.3GB original EyeTV HD broadcast recording down to 351MB using this method. The result is an excellent, albeit soft, version of the original that can go on an iPod or two on a CD and when played on an analog TV looks like a DVD. On a HD monitor it still looks great. Just a little soft.
I haven't explored what else we can run simultaneously beyond Toast and Handbrake. I can run as many instances of those as I like. But I run out of cores even just running both of them because they will each use more than two cores given the chance to run alone. Running them simultaneously even with a second Handbrake running third, still gets all the jobs done faster than waiting for two to run and then running the third. Handbrake will process up to about 150-160 fps when two copies are running while it will process only about 93-100 fps alone.
Handbrake FPS readings vary a lot between the analysis pass and the writing pass - much slower writing on the second pass than studying-planning the writing scheme on the first pass on both the Quad and the Mac Pro. On the Mac Pro, Toast will use almost all 4 cores given no competition. But so far I'm not convinced it is encoding EyeTV recordings for DVD images much faster than it does on teh Quad - yes 7.1 UB. I need to go back and exact time some encodes on the Mac Pro then compare that here on the Quad to tell.
Just tried to launch a second copy of EyeTV and it's a no go. Maybe if I have another liscense with another tuner like the new hybrid it will work with a second copy - don't know yet. Probably getting a hybrid tuner yet so I can record two shows at once.
A Multi-Instance and Multi-Core Usage Guide would be a great help. Does someone with authorization want to start a thread on this subject? I am not authorized to create new threads. But I would be happy to contribute to it. If someone with new thread creation permission does it, please post a link to it here. Thank you.Well anyone here can start a Guide on the wiki. Ask around if anyone else knows more on the subject. Otherwise I picked you from our previous ramblings on Core 2 Duo and quad-core machines.
Edit: Interesting usage of Toast/Handbrake there.
64bit addressing arrives with the new cpu. so the point is that napa64 isn't really new, it just uses merom instead of yonah.I guess that resolves the Napa32/64 argument. If there ever was one...
Yeah that will be the Mac Pro Jr. while the rest of the Mac Pros will be running pairs of Clovertowns.Cube? 24" iMac?
I haven't explored what else we can run simultaneously beyond Toast and Handbrake. I can run as many instances of those as I like. But I run out of cores even just running both of them because they will each use more than two cores given the chance to run alone. Running them simultaneously even with a second Handbrake running third, still gets all the jobs done faster than waiting for two to run and then running the third. Handbrake will process up to about 150-160 fps when two copies are running while it will process only about 93-100 fps alone.
Handbrake FPS readings vary a lot between the analysis pass and the writing pass - much slower writing on the second pass than studying-planning the writing scheme on the first pass on both the Quad and the Mac Pro. On the Mac Pro, Toast will use almost all 4 cores given no competition. But so far I'm not convinced it is encoding EyeTV recordings for DVD images much faster than it does on teh Quad - yes 7.1 UB. I need to go back and exact time some encodes on the Mac Pro then compare that here on the Quad to tell.
Just tried to launch a second copy of EyeTV and it's a no go. Maybe if I have another liscense with another tuner like the new hybrid it will work with a second copy - don't know yet. Probably getting a hybrid tuner yet so I can record two shows at once.
A Multi-Instance and Multi-Core Usage Guide would be a great help. Does someone with authorization want to start a thread on this subject? I am not authorized to create new threads. But I would be happy to contribute to it. If someone with new thread creation permission does it, please post a link to it here. Thank you.Well anyone here can start a Guide on the wiki. Ask around if anyone else knows more on the subject. Otherwise I picked you from our previous ramblings on Core 2 Duo and quad-core machines.
Edit: Interesting usage of Toast/Handbrake there.
64bit addressing arrives with the new cpu. so the point is that napa64 isn't really new, it just uses merom instead of yonah.I guess that resolves the Napa32/64 argument. If there ever was one...
Yeah that will be the Mac Pro Jr. while the rest of the Mac Pros will be running pairs of Clovertowns.Cube? 24" iMac?
technima
Apr 22, 01:59 AM
This would be awesome! LaLa reborn!
MrFirework
Oct 27, 11:04 AM
Sure, they wandered away from their stall to the entrance to hand out leaflets, but so did half or dozen or so other stallholders. The fact remains that I haven't heard of anyone else being ejected because of this. And it makes you concerned that they were singled out because of the message they were trying to convey.
Okay... I'm not quite done, you can get back to your whining in a moment.
See that area emphasized above? That's the exact thing that causes all our bickering in but the U.S. and the U.K.. The idea that somehow it's okay to violate contracts, laws or even social norms just because you agree with the reason for breaking said rules. If you have a problem with the rules, get them changed, until you do, obey them. There's a reason it's called "civilization" - we all have to be civil for it to work.
Okay. Now I'm really done.
Okay... I'm not quite done, you can get back to your whining in a moment.
See that area emphasized above? That's the exact thing that causes all our bickering in but the U.S. and the U.K.. The idea that somehow it's okay to violate contracts, laws or even social norms just because you agree with the reason for breaking said rules. If you have a problem with the rules, get them changed, until you do, obey them. There's a reason it's called "civilization" - we all have to be civil for it to work.
Okay. Now I'm really done.
gugy
Sep 14, 11:06 AM
Here we go again,
High expectations for another event.
Just take the event this week as a lesson.
Showtime, we got:
Movie Store
Update ipods
ITV.
All related to Itunes and audio video experience. That's why was called "Showtime"
Now we have a new event coming up at a Photokina, photographers event.
What should we expect?
Aperture update and maybe something else relate to Photographers needs.
That's all folks!
Stop dreaming about Iphone, Mac Book Pro etc. it won't happen.
MPB's will be update on a Tuesday just like the Imac was couple weeks back. No special event for that.
Iphone if happens will be either have their own event or at MWSF.
Then later people get upset with Apple and don't understand why. Reality check guys.
High expectations for another event.
Just take the event this week as a lesson.
Showtime, we got:
Movie Store
Update ipods
ITV.
All related to Itunes and audio video experience. That's why was called "Showtime"
Now we have a new event coming up at a Photokina, photographers event.
What should we expect?
Aperture update and maybe something else relate to Photographers needs.
That's all folks!
Stop dreaming about Iphone, Mac Book Pro etc. it won't happen.
MPB's will be update on a Tuesday just like the Imac was couple weeks back. No special event for that.
Iphone if happens will be either have their own event or at MWSF.
Then later people get upset with Apple and don't understand why. Reality check guys.
segfaultdotorg
May 3, 11:38 AM
Great update� waiting for the usual suspects to come around to list any [unreasonable] cons :p�
No coupon for a free Lion upgrade. Lame.
No coupon for a free Lion upgrade. Lame.
aristotle
Apr 20, 01:33 PM
Enough with the chicken little episodes already.
Apparently, this is related to AT&T only and it is not based on GPS location services but rather a database of cell towers. It contains no identifiable information and is sent to AT&T for analysis for signal strength statistics.
Since it does not contain personal information and is being used to analyze the state of the AT&T network, I don't see a problem here. People who are not inside of the US are not affected by this.
If you think that this is a privacy concern then you need to have your head examined. It is anonymous statistical information and nothing more.
*edit*
It is possible that this information was being collected for an AT&T app that you could download a while back and the OS is still collecting it in the background regardless of whether you have the app installed. Am I crazy or is there an AT&T app that consumes this data on the app store?
Apparently, this is related to AT&T only and it is not based on GPS location services but rather a database of cell towers. It contains no identifiable information and is sent to AT&T for analysis for signal strength statistics.
Since it does not contain personal information and is being used to analyze the state of the AT&T network, I don't see a problem here. People who are not inside of the US are not affected by this.
If you think that this is a privacy concern then you need to have your head examined. It is anonymous statistical information and nothing more.
*edit*
It is possible that this information was being collected for an AT&T app that you could download a while back and the OS is still collecting it in the background regardless of whether you have the app installed. Am I crazy or is there an AT&T app that consumes this data on the app store?
McGiord
Mar 29, 01:39 PM
As RIM announced that the PlayBook will be able to run Android Apps, the competition will be very interesting.
Additional factors need to be considered.
Things like malware, adware, and so on for all these OS. As more and more people get mobile devices with these OS, depending on how all these players in the market protect their OS and devices against this type of security issues, the consumer will go for what works and do not need all the anti-virus *************.
Other rumors like carrier independence, if it flies, and Apple successfully bat a hit with this, the consumers will go where their money is worth every penny.
Making your own hardware has been a key for Apple success. Maybe RIm enjoyed some of it, but most of all the other OS are so fragmented in terms of hardware, that for them it is not easy to maintain, release, as it is difficult for any IT department to support them.
So the distinction between enterprise/business and regular customers will also show a different distribution of the market share.
Additional factors need to be considered.
Things like malware, adware, and so on for all these OS. As more and more people get mobile devices with these OS, depending on how all these players in the market protect their OS and devices against this type of security issues, the consumer will go for what works and do not need all the anti-virus *************.
Other rumors like carrier independence, if it flies, and Apple successfully bat a hit with this, the consumers will go where their money is worth every penny.
Making your own hardware has been a key for Apple success. Maybe RIm enjoyed some of it, but most of all the other OS are so fragmented in terms of hardware, that for them it is not easy to maintain, release, as it is difficult for any IT department to support them.
So the distinction between enterprise/business and regular customers will also show a different distribution of the market share.
unobtainium
Apr 30, 01:38 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)
So previous iMac design lasted 4 years...it's been 3. Previous MBP design lasted, what, 6 years? Rumors are meaningless until we see leaked shots or something (remember the iPad 2 rumors?)
I don't think that overhauling the exterior of iMac or MBP is high on Apple's priority list at the moment and I'd be surprised if it happened within the next year.
So previous iMac design lasted 4 years...it's been 3. Previous MBP design lasted, what, 6 years? Rumors are meaningless until we see leaked shots or something (remember the iPad 2 rumors?)
I don't think that overhauling the exterior of iMac or MBP is high on Apple's priority list at the moment and I'd be surprised if it happened within the next year.
Zwhaler
Sep 5, 05:54 PM
Strange, the movie store is the thing that I am least excited about :confused: But I still hope for new imac and/or mbp.
deputy_doofy
Aug 28, 03:30 PM
there will ALWAYS be updates, if you keep waiting for the next one you'll be waiting forever. Santa rosa isn't going to be THAT amazing of an upgrade. I'd just buy the core duo 2 when they release and then upgrade to leopard later. But that's just me.
Agreed. That would have been like waiting for the 167MHz bus on the old Powerbooks because the 133MHz wasn't cutting it.... :p
Agreed. That would have been like waiting for the 167MHz bus on the old Powerbooks because the 133MHz wasn't cutting it.... :p
djrobsd
Apr 14, 12:43 PM
This is seriously bad news for Thunderbolt. This is just like Intel supporting both USB 2.0 and Firewire in the past... Thunderbolt will be a specialized gig for the Macs, just like Firewire was, and most PC users will end up using USB...
Intel should have stood their ground on Thunderbolt... Would have pushed component manufacturers to make more Thunderbolt devices, now we're going to have a mish mash, and those of us with Macs are getting the shaft because we won't get USB 3.0 from Apple...
Hopefully there will be adapters and converters.. And hopefully Apple will get their heads out of their asses on the next refresh and add BOTH USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt to give us consumers maximum flexibility.
Intel should have stood their ground on Thunderbolt... Would have pushed component manufacturers to make more Thunderbolt devices, now we're going to have a mish mash, and those of us with Macs are getting the shaft because we won't get USB 3.0 from Apple...
Hopefully there will be adapters and converters.. And hopefully Apple will get their heads out of their asses on the next refresh and add BOTH USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt to give us consumers maximum flexibility.
eddieairplanes
Mar 22, 04:04 PM
So stoked! Aside from the iPad 2, this is what I've been saving up for for the past year. My 24'' from 2007 is still running strong but I'm hoping to have something that will for sure run Diablo III smoothly when it eventually drops.
Dorfdad
Mar 22, 01:28 PM
Great news as I have been riding out my 2007 iMac and was tempted to buy one a few weeks ago. Glad I waited and will be first in line for the new iMac's! Wonder what problems we will face though? As it seems all new launches have. Anyone want to buy a Mint 24" 2007 with a 500gb HD (Fall 2007) Ati radeon 2600 Pro?
amberashby
Sep 12, 09:11 PM
I just updated my 5G, but I don't see the search function. Anyone else?
Machead III
Aug 29, 05:04 AM
You make it sound like companies have an obligation of going public. And what you may say MIGHT be true, you are also forgetting that most of the crummy companies in existence are public. Enron was public, Microsoft is public, Exxon is public, Chiquita is public. The list goes on. And you are forgetting that while in theory investors might force changes in the company, usually they don't. Only time they force changes are when the company is not delivering "enough" ROI for the investors. Investors are the primary reason why we have "quarter-capitalism", where long-term benefits are sacrificed for short-term profits.
Personally I believe all companies not only have an obligation to go public, but have an obligation to surrender the entire control held by the board of directors to the state which is controled absolutely by the public, thereby allowing for the involvement of interests other than those financial and allowing actual democracy to pervade rather than increasingly fascist corporatocracy.
Not that I think Apple is particularly one of the companies creating that trend, it's fairly good in that regard, and I hope to see them make a real effort to improve conditions in the iPod City.
Microsoft on the other hand, regardless of how piss poor their software is, is notoriously ruthless towards workers, other businesses, even public serivces, and definately contributes to the overall erosion of both democracy and any kind of "Wealth of Nations" free market capitalism that remains the only partially benevolent flavour of said economic system.
It's very true, investors rarely act upon non-financial interests, but occasionally. Still, this is what happens when the only method of interaction with a coroporation is through the buying and selling of stocks and products.
Such is the success of neo-liberalism; it's impossible to express social human concerns with the language of GDP and quarter profits imposed by the unanimous corporate landscape of the modern world.
Personally I'd rather pay a lot more for my Macs, have them updated a lot less often and even suffer decreases in the rate of performance improvements, if it meant that the people who manufactured the computers were paid enough to sustain themselves and their families in comfortable, suitable housing with enough money left over for an enjoyable life.
Morality over Mhz!
Personally I believe all companies not only have an obligation to go public, but have an obligation to surrender the entire control held by the board of directors to the state which is controled absolutely by the public, thereby allowing for the involvement of interests other than those financial and allowing actual democracy to pervade rather than increasingly fascist corporatocracy.
Not that I think Apple is particularly one of the companies creating that trend, it's fairly good in that regard, and I hope to see them make a real effort to improve conditions in the iPod City.
Microsoft on the other hand, regardless of how piss poor their software is, is notoriously ruthless towards workers, other businesses, even public serivces, and definately contributes to the overall erosion of both democracy and any kind of "Wealth of Nations" free market capitalism that remains the only partially benevolent flavour of said economic system.
It's very true, investors rarely act upon non-financial interests, but occasionally. Still, this is what happens when the only method of interaction with a coroporation is through the buying and selling of stocks and products.
Such is the success of neo-liberalism; it's impossible to express social human concerns with the language of GDP and quarter profits imposed by the unanimous corporate landscape of the modern world.
Personally I'd rather pay a lot more for my Macs, have them updated a lot less often and even suffer decreases in the rate of performance improvements, if it meant that the people who manufactured the computers were paid enough to sustain themselves and their families in comfortable, suitable housing with enough money left over for an enjoyable life.
Morality over Mhz!
SuperCachetes
Apr 25, 06:24 AM
The simple fact is that I should not have to obey a 70mph speed limit if I don't want to. Why would I even bother driving a car that can hit 186mph (with the speed governor removed, with the governor top speed is 155mph) at 70 mph? A Ford Fiesta can hit those speeds, what's the point of fast cars if you're going to follow the speed limit in them?
:rolleyes:
http://www.overstockdrugstore.com/product_images/w/041608087406.jpg
:rolleyes:
http://www.overstockdrugstore.com/product_images/w/041608087406.jpg
JeffDM
Sep 17, 12:02 PM
(by the way, they do make 10 megapixel camera phones now) if you buy them online, paying retail prices.
Are they any good? I've never seen a phone with a good camera, 10MP phone sounds like 10MP of grainy nasty pictures to me.
If the iPhone is half of the product that the iPod is, it should have a decent harddrive. I think that this would allow for whatever software, songs, movies,or whatever you want. Just take 2 gigsof the drive and partition it off for the OS. But, I could be wrong.
That would make the phone way too large. Unfortunately, the market has shifted to smaller phones such that they are harder to use than necessary, but that makes them easier to carry. A phone that's a little larger than a nano might be accepted, something that's as large as the 5G probably won't, that would make it the largest phone on the market.
Are they any good? I've never seen a phone with a good camera, 10MP phone sounds like 10MP of grainy nasty pictures to me.
If the iPhone is half of the product that the iPod is, it should have a decent harddrive. I think that this would allow for whatever software, songs, movies,or whatever you want. Just take 2 gigsof the drive and partition it off for the OS. But, I could be wrong.
That would make the phone way too large. Unfortunately, the market has shifted to smaller phones such that they are harder to use than necessary, but that makes them easier to carry. A phone that's a little larger than a nano might be accepted, something that's as large as the 5G probably won't, that would make it the largest phone on the market.
Full of Win
Apr 30, 01:13 PM
One step closer to the MacBook Air update.
ChrisA
Sep 15, 06:48 PM
Apple being a California based company certainly must know about the new law just signed that prohibits hand held cell phone use while driving a car. (Reasonable law if you ask me) with this new law we can assume the phone will have some kind of "hands free" interface. It would be very hard to sell a high end phone that can't be used in a car in California. Apple must know this, the law has been in the works for some time.
afields
Sep 14, 01:15 AM
gahhhhh.....these iphone rumors are driving me crazy....with anticipation. When is the gonna finally happen? Hopefully before the end of the year.
dgalvan123
Mar 22, 02:24 PM
Come on Mac Mini update; well overdue for a refresh. That Core 2 Duo is keeping me from buying.
This.
I just got the wife's approval to replace our satellite subscription with a mac-mini media center. If the mac mini is going to be updated within a couple of months, I'll wait for it.
This.
I just got the wife's approval to replace our satellite subscription with a mac-mini media center. If the mac mini is going to be updated within a couple of months, I'll wait for it.
Bonte
Sep 5, 09:49 AM
The store is updated but will show the new content on the 12th i guess, available the day itself.
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